Denise:                 Hey, gorgeous. It's Denise here, and before you listen to today's episode, I want to let you know that I am doing a live two hour workshop soon all about how you can leverage your strengths and make more money.

                                You can register at denisedt.com/leverage. I don't want to miss you, because we have tons of prizes and there's so much I want to share with you.

                                So make sure you register for the Leverage Your Strengths and Make More Money workshop live at denisedt.com/leverage.

                                See you there.

                                (Singing).

                                Hey, and welcome back to another special episode of Chill and Prosper, where I have a guest. We did a couple of weeks ago. I had Mark in to talk about working with your partner, the good, the bad, the ugly, and it was a very raw conversation, but it was so quick. And so we decided to do another one. And in this one, we're specifically talking about our money archetypes and how they compliment each other, and also how they clash with each other as well. So we are in a launch at the moment for our money archetypes course, but we have a lot of free content for you.

                                So if you go and take the [email protected]/quiz, or you can go to slash cheat, if you just want a cheat sheet of all the archetypes, you can find out what your money archetype is. You can get your partner to do the same, and then you can get a free workshop talking about your strengths and challenges in business. But I wanted to invite Mark back because we are just such a great example about how you can have someone in your life whose archetypes really compliment yours in so many ways, but also can create some stress. And, so welcome back, Mark.

Mark:                    Yeah. Thank you. So not only was I first guest, I'm the first returning guest. I'm very lucky, very lucky to be here.

Denise:                 Well, I don't really ever have any guests and I think that's part of my money. Archetype being a ruler is that we like to be the boss and it's hard to have guests when you just want to be the boss. So thanks for coming. Okay. So for those of you who don't know the quiz, my archetypes, I'm a ruler, a maverick, a romantic, so the rulers are all about business and monetizing, everything and marketing and just loving, being in business, the mavericks are all about wanting to break the rules and have freedom. And then the romantics are all about creating ease and luxury, and coziness, and just ease, and flow. And Mark, tell us about your money archetypes.

Mark:                    Yeah, well, interestingly, my first two money archetypes or like the personality of that I have with money is the same as yours. So I am the ruler as well, which the kind of very driven empire builder focused on success and growth and all those things, like you said, and I'm also the maverick as well about kind of risk taking and opportunities. So they work really well together in that sense, because we both understand where we're coming from and we know kind of the strengths and weaknesses, the third one for me, which really kind of gives things a different flavor about how we work together and how we think and act around money. Is that my third one's a celebrity, which is more about visibility and leadership and luxury and-

Denise:                 Impressing other people, yeah.

Mark:                    Absolutely. Yeah, caring a lot about external opinion and recognition. So there are pluses and minuses, or strengths and weaknesses for each of the archetypes and now or even though that we are the same, the first two, it presents in really different ways. And we work in different ways together.

Denise:                 Yeah. Because I think with my third, my romantic that sometimes saves me from being too much of a workaholic. When I say too much, I still am so focused on business and always coming up with new ideas. But I think it is that romantic, that saved me sometimes. Whereas I think you could literally just work and work and work and work and work and work and work. And we talked about in the first episode that you had this cycle of being in your jobs where you'd totally burn out. And then I would kind of just be like, all right, now we're going traveling, okay, now we're doing this, but and I sometimes think, what would you have be doing if we, if we weren't together and we didn't end up working together because you'd be a CEO, right? Like you'd be a CEO of a business. And you'd probably be like very hard working and very driven. And you don't like taking time off. You don't know how to relax sometimes. So you are like double ruler.

Mark:                    Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I think that's true as well. Like yeah, it would be very much about career, and status, and success, and hard work, and which is a benefit for us that we both have incredible work ethics, which we've had from teenagers kids, which has really helped a lot in terms of what we've, what we've achieved so far. But it definitely is now more and more is something we have to be super conscious of where we're both not in our full workaholic rulerness because that combined, yeah. It has a massive impact on each of us personally, on our relationship on our kids. So yeah, we have to do have to be aware of that, but it is like, like we said, in the first episode, it's like having two CEOs or two really committed, driven, hardworking people in our business. And it definitely helps with what we're trying to do.

Denise:                 Well, I think to that ruler thing for us, it's always like, there's always more opportunities, right. And there's always something more that we can do. And so you and I are kind of, we can, it's really great because we both can go, oh wow, look at this opportunity. But then we kind of jump into things and we kind of go, oh, let's not put ourselves in financial trouble, but it's like, let's swing for the fences. And I think the maverick side, even though sometimes mavericks can be really rebellious. I don't think that comes up so much with us. Like mine definitely comes up when I'm like, don't tell me what to do when you are trying to be bossy. But I don't think either of us are trying to live outside of society for the sake of breaking rules. I think that comes for us of just like going, yeah. Why not? Let's just do it. So freedom for me has always been my thing. But where do you think your maverick has kind of shown up.

Mark:                    Two areas? Really. So first, like you said, is the risk taking side of the maverick where we do in the past. Certainly we have pushed ourselves to and stretched ourselves and gone after big goals and backed ourselves to make things happen and been really fortunate to manifest good outcomes-

Denise:                 Yeah we always pull it up.

Mark:                    ... the majority of cases. So definitely that kind of calculated looking for the advantage, looking for the opportunity, the risk taker that shows up for sure. And the Maverick and then the other is not the rebellious side, but the kind of prove them wrong type energy or type of idea that a maverick can have is like show everyone what you can do and show people how successful you are and all of that sort of stuff.

Denise:                 Never admit defeat that's the other thing.

Mark:                    Yeah. Don't give up and yeah, so that definitely shows up. And we are fortunate that we don't have that like rebel or do some do crazy things, like...

Denise:                 Burn it down.

Mark:                    Yeah. Or like-

Denise:                 Get bored.

Mark:                    ... do drugs, or really high adrenaline risk taking things that would hurt and in a lot of ways the ruler does really just come first for us in the business side of thing.

Denise:                 I wish I took drugs. I never went through a drug phase. It wouldn't, I was such a square and you kind of were as well, right? You both like kind of goody maybe we'll get into psychedelics in our retirement ages and that's when we'll go rebellious. Okay. So that third one though, celebrity, because I don't have celebrity energy at all. It's pretty low for me, but where was third for you. Like, it took me a long time to realize that like, even when we got married, which was quite a long time ago now how many years? 17 years. Something like that.

Mark:                    Married like-

Denise:                 2001.

Mark:                    ... 13, I think. Yeah.

Denise:                 Oh cool. I'm bad with math. As you know, I remember thinking like you were so into the planning of the wedding, like every, you wanted everything to be perfect and you would be like, look at these envelopes. What about this envelope? And I have capacity for maybe three choices for things like that. I'll go yep. That one. And you'll go, no, but look at these 51s and look, what about these socks? And what about these ties? And it took you like six months to pick your tie. And I just didn't see it because I didn't know that it was a thing, before we did money archetypes, I didn't know. That was a thing. And so even now, I don't feel like you're a super flashy person, but there's something there about you probably need a lot more recognition than you're getting by us working together.

Mark:                    Yeah, totally. So I think the interesting thing, when you're looking at the money personalities, the Sacred Money Archetypes® is like, you can go few levels deeper and see where some of it's coming from. And we've talked about it. There's like insecurities from my childhood that drive both the ruler and the celebrity that drive the need to improve myself and work hard and show I'm successful and get recognition from the ruler, but also in the celebrity about really caring what other people think. And yeah, that was the whole thing with our wedding is being seen to have a perfect day and a perfect relationship and really caring about what the details are and wanting to host and wanting to impress, having like way too kind of many people there and people that we've probably not seen since the wedding, because yeah.

                                It was like driven by that celebrity of wanting to have recognition. And that was also part of my corporate career that I enjoyed as well, a recognition in the being in a leadership position. Like I'm not the celebrity, that's the life and soul of the party, but I'm the celebrity that's kind of on the stage and in, at the front leading for sure.

                                And some of that, I've had to learn to kind of subdue or not fulfill at this time in our life because we're doing other things and we've got to kind of bigger, more important vision that we're working towards in other areas where yeah, maybe I'm not on stage. It's not my name on the front of the business. I'm not the CEO, but we've got this incredible life together. We've got beautiful children, an amazing house. And all of those things that do give me a lot of sense of pride and yeah. Recognition and all of those sorts of things. So that's kind of where I draw that from now is I look at what we've created together and being able to have, be fortunate enough to buy things that I like and buy nice things and buy.

Denise:                 Which I think you could honestly go take that even to the next level.

Mark:                    Totally. Come on. I make my clothes. Like I not, I don't have a $200 jumper or I know.

Denise:                 But you could start with like belts, or shoes, or something like that because I think we're both tired. I think that is a big thing. And when I see people with suppressed energy, a lot of the time it is suppressed celebrity energy, because they've been told that they shouldn't or circumstances in their lives, right? And so I think while our kids are young, things like you say, "Oh, I really want a nice car." And I'm always like, "Are you crazy?" Like our kids are so young, like they're just going to throw up in it and put McDonald's crumbs in it. So I think some of your celebrity stuff will come out a little bit later in life.

Mark:                    Oh, 100%. And as we also just continue to build out our wealth as well, it will be even more fun to do those type of things for sure you will-

Denise:                 Sara Blakely says.

Mark:                    ... and the same for your romantic as well. Like you'll find even more vitamins that you need and new self care treatments that you need.

Denise:                 Do you love buying vitamins. I don't always remember to take them, but yeah. As Sara Blakely says money is fun to make, fun to spend, and fun to give away. And that's something that is a really good motto for our family. Now we're going to have a quick break. When we come back, I'm going to ask Mark, and we're going to talk about how the archetypes show up in our families with our kids, but also our parents and our siblings and some interesting things like that. So don't go away. We'll be right back after this very short break.

Janet:                    Well, hi, I'm Janet Bernstein and I am a celebrity. My other two archetypes are nurturer and ruler. I was like, I'm not a celebrity. That's not really like who I am. Like, I'm kind of the one behind the scenes cheering for everybody. So I was kind of confused when I first saw the different archetypes, but actually when I started like watching the videos and I started like going through what I wanted for my life and my business, the celebrity was there.

                                She was just kind of hiding. And she was just not showing up. She was kind of saying like, "Oh, well, if you're plus size, nobody wants you to be on camera all the time." or "Oh, you have wild and curly hair, you've got to tame it to show up or you have to have your hair done or you have to have makeup done." like, it was funny. Denise is talking about doing her hair and makeup before showing up, I used to have that view that like, oh, well, if I'm going to be this person on social media, I have to do all those things. And I realize that over time, like it's the personality that really is the celebrity thing. It's not, it's not all the other stuff.

Denise:                 Okay. So welcome back everybody. We are talking to my husband, Mark and I about how our archetypes show up together and clash and sometimes compliment each other and all those things. Now, if you haven't done the quiz yet, go to denisedt.com/quiz. It's just on my website. You can also find the cheat sheet at slash cheat. And that will just give you a summary of all the archetypes. And then you can choose which workshop you opt into to watch. It'll talk about your strengths and your challenges in business. And, and then we have an upcoming course coming up soon about how to use the archetypes in your business for more flow and ease and even just understanding, because I do think, we've done an episode about how we work together and how tricky that was. But I actually think one of the game changers for us was using the language of the archetypes to give us a framework of understanding each other's personalities.

Mark:                    Yeah. I was literally just thinking exactly the same thing about how learning the different personalities and how they work together and what triggers them and all that's has been. Yeah, one of the biggest things in our relationship and it's given us a framework to communicate and a framework to work together and shape our roles and what we do in the business in a way that is playing, playing to our strength so that we can make more money. And we don't always have to just do things that we're not passionate about, although we're not good at. So it's been really powerful for us in a relationship and for us in business and ultimately it's a framework, right? It's a lens for us to look deeper at our relationship-

Denise:                 Share language.

Mark:                    And yeah, it's a shared language. It's the start of a conversation. It's a chance for building connection so that we do have the vision and we do have what we want to achieve together. And it's yeah, it's just another way that we stay on the same page we get on the same page. We build that understanding of what we're both going through and trying to do. Yeah. So it's been, it can't, and that's why I got certified as a archetype's coach as well. And why we're so passionate about sharing this work with people and having people join us in our course, which I'm also a facilitator in, because yeah. It's really helped us and it can help in all areas of your business. And we use it like we do use it every week when we talk about how we parent and how we interact together. So-

Denise:                 Oh, absolutely. So one example on that is sometimes when we're both overscheduling things or we can say, okay, that's your ruler talking? Or we just go, okay, ruler, same with maverick of every time our maverick comes up and goes, let's do this. We go, no some of bootcamps or roads lead to bootcamp. Like, let's focus. What are we playing for? And then I would say for our, we don't really kind of call each other on our third archetype that much. Sometimes I'll be like, okay, celebrity. But it is that shared language.

Mark:                    I think we kind of let each other play a little bit in the third one. Because it's where it's less, it's a bit further away from the business. So it can be like the farm. The farm is totally your romantic and personality, and you're channeling all of your creativity and energy into our rose farm, creating this space of love and beauty and like it's incredible. Yeah, exactly. So that's the kind of your outlet for that to really tap into that.

Denise:                 And that is a place for you to have people around for your celebrity too, right?

Mark:                    100% yeah both and like, so beach house is a big area where I got kind of to lean into my celebrity. Yeah. And also at the rose farm and also doing stuff at the kids school where I'm in leadership positions or different things like that. It's like, yeah. Finding opportunities in our life where you can tap into the strengths of the different archetypes that you have and kind of have a full life where all your archetypes are getting utilized then enriched.

Denise:                 Well, let's talk about their archetypes that are pretty low for us. So as I said, my celebrity is pretty low. What do you remember what your lowest is?

Mark:                    Yeah, I was connector for sure. Is my lowest one, and that is, yeah. Like I'm not in the life and soul of the party. I don't have like a big group of friends. I've some close, good friends. And-

Denise:                 Sometimes I have to remind you to use social lubrication.

Mark:                    100% because for me it's all like, I'm a ruler, right. I put the-

Denise:                 You're like, let's do this. And I go, okay. Like go and say hi first and like give a compliment, don't just like come out there with what you want. Put some like, hi, how are you? Put some little lubrication in there.

Mark:                    Yeah. Because it's, that's hard because I don't need that stuff from like. Okay. What's the goal? What's the plan? What happened?

Denise:                 I don't need that much either, but I can recognize that other people do. And, but also in our business, because our, both of our connectors aren't super high. We've had to bring in team members to do things like that, of to send flowers to clients.

Mark:                    I reckon nearly all of our team have got pretty high connector.

Denise:                 Well, we needed that because it is such a... We've got such a beautiful business where we have so many connections with people, but people then, listen to my podcast and think, oh, Denise is my best friend. But then the customer service needs to support that, and I can't support all of the customer service, and you'd hate for someone to go, oh, like Denise just took my money and there's no one can answer my question. I can't do that. But we can have a team with that connect to energy. And that's what I love in the new course as well, where we talk about finding those gaps in your life and bringing that in. And it's not even just about hiring people. It's what energy do you need in your life? And I know for myself, when I need connector energy, I'll hang out with someone with connector energy or I'll go to the farm to get some more of that nurture romantic energy. And where, where are you getting some of your other archetype stuff?

Mark:                    Yeah. Interesting.

Denise:                 Mankind?

Mark:                    Yeah. so my man's group for sure, is some more nurturing, nurture energy and connector energy. Yeah. I'd say that's the main area, like yeah. Seeing friends and doing sport and that sort of stuff. I think the property investing that we do definitely helps with the acute, my accumulator, which I think is my fourth. So, and there are times where I can definitely tap into that, like can be really detailed and organized then all of those kind of good strength of the human yeah and also sometimes have challenges with scares a mindset and struggling to make decisions or invest or in fear-

Denise:                 Yeah. And I was surprised.

Mark:                    ... yeah having fear sometimes around money. So yeah, the romantic. Yeah. The farms, that's great for both of us. I think it's just like, it is a place of joy and like just being with the kids as well. That's a good source of being able to tap more into the nurturer energy. And that's definitely an area that I've got to work on because sometimes I can turn up in my rule or with kids, with the schedule, with their what's the homework, what's the goal. Which sport are you doing this? What are we doing today? And-

Denise:                 Because you want them to be the best and that's yeah. That's understandable.

Mark:                    It's everybody. Yeah. So we have, it's learning to try and balance that with wanting them to be happy and have fun and-

Denise:                 Totally.

Mark:                    ... rounded kids. And yeah-

Denise:                 So let's talk about their personalities. So our oldest Willow, I think she's got a lot of romantic because she's so chill and she loves coziness and she loves her comforts, but I also think now that she's older, she's got so much nurturing or maybe connect to energy because she's always just like, I understand like she's such a good listener and she has so much empathy.

Mark:                    Yeah, definitely. I think both connector and nurturer. She's so good with her little sister with that kind of nurturing and supporting. She really cares for, for all of our family and our dogs. And I mean this week it was her teacher's birthday at school. So she told me, okay, you got to go buy a present and bringing in. So we've got some flowers and it's just like that extra thought of, for other people is and it's really beautiful for Willow to have. And that's, she's got that. And then she's got the creativity and the want to follow in your footsteps of being an author and writing books in.

Denise:                 So, she could have some Alchemist.

Mark:                    Yeah. Exactly.

Denise:                 Yeah, I think.

Mark:                    Because she loves art. She loves all sorts of creativity and writings.

Denise:                 And I think she will be someone who has a lot of different careers in a way of just going, okay, I want to be an artist now I want to write books. Now I want to do the thing. Now I want to travel. And she's all about like, yeah. Travel and future kind of stuff, which is a very Alchemist thing to always think of the possibilities. Like even to today, she's talking about, I don't have a driver's license and I'm like, you're eight years old, like calm down. But she can see that possibility in her head of having that freedom and adventure of having her own car and doing all that cool stuff. So I think, yeah. And so George. George is our middle child had some challenges around his behavior, obviously. So, much of his early years have been pure maverick because he's been diagnosed with ADHD.

Mark:                    Strong willed and determined and stubborn and wants his way, and wants things fair and wants things to be-

Denise:                 He's a tourist

Mark:                    ... has a fixed kind of structure that wants to follow and doesn't do that well changing kind of course, or following someone else's agenda. So yeah, he got that maverick for sure. More and more coming out in of him. He's got, I think he's got some ruler for sure. I think he's got maybe some accumulator, like that fairness, that sense of fairness. Sense and-

Denise:                 He's always like.

Mark:                    ... the detail. He's yeah and, but he can also be super sweet and empathetic as well, like with his sisters. And so yeah, he would have, oh, he loves his friends. So he would've some connector. He knows every kid's name. It's always like when he is in the car, why down the window? I've got to say hi to blah, blah, blah. I've got to say hi to this person. Hi to this. So yeah. He's got some, and come on, he's going to be super. He's going to be the popular kid, he's cute, and funny and all that sort of stuff. So yeah. He's probably got some connector too.

Denise:                 All right. Let's talk about our youngest. So she is at the... Now she's three and a half. She is intense.

Mark:                    Oh. I mean, she's like deputy CEO of the business already. She runs the house. She's like, yeah. So she's got a lot.

Denise:                 She's celebrity like.

Mark:                    She's your daughter, but she's really exactly a lot of both of us. She's got a lot of role, she's got a lot of ambition, and energy, and wanting to make things happen and-

Denise:                 She wants to be the boss.

Mark:                    ... she's got very clear ideas. Yep. She wants to be boss.

Denise:                 She wants to be heard. And that's why I think that's the ruler celebrity, because she's always like guys, listen, I'm talking. Yeah. She wants to be in the spotlight. She wants to be the center of attention. And we have to be so careful to not shame her for both of those things. Right. Because little girls are told, you're being bossy. She's already been told that at daycare. And I keep on saying to her, no, that's fine. You're a leader without also you don't want it to be an asshole that no one likes because she is bossy. But it's like, how can you redirect that? And then her celebrity side, so many little girls are told, no one likes to show off and let other people have a turn. And so it's finding that balance, right? But the thing that I know that she's a celebrity, she loves talking about clothes and she uses a straw.

                                She will not drink out of a cup. She has to have a straw, which I don't even know where she got that from. It must just be something that celebrities are born with because all celebrities, I know, drink out of straws because they don't want to mess up their lipstick. And she's like, get me a straw, and we have to just teach her. Like, you can be as fabulous as you like, but you still got to be nice to people.

                                But she had George's white school socks on her arms and she was wearing them in like opera gloves. And I was saying to her, I'm like, "Okay, it's time to get in the bath now." And she's like, "No, don't take my gloves." And I said, "They're not your gloves, they're George's dirty socks from school. I can get you a fresh pair." And she was like, "Don't put my gloves. It's my special outfit." And I just thought, oh man, this is going to be interesting when she grows up because hopefully I can enhance more of my celebrity archetype because it's, as I said, it's still pretty low, but like have people in my life, like my friend Victoria Gibson, like Sam Leith, who have more of that celebrity archetype to kind of step in and be her like her fabulous aunt who will go, okay, well I'll take you to fancy places and let's buy your first bag because your mom can't, I can tag along, but I can't enhance that celebrity side of her.

                                So it's just interesting to see how it all plays out. Now we are running out of time, but let me just see what our time. Oh, yeah, we are so running out of time, but it is so much fun to talk about the archetypes and-

Mark:                    Yeah, because in the same way that we've been hiring in our business to like fill gaps, we have to think about the kids and how we can build them as fulfilled and rounded personnel is by bringing in different influences of people that we know or experiences that we do together or, and be allowing them to lean in or lean out of different parts of their personality. Like Willow is the type of kid who just would love to go to a spa, or have a facial, or have a long bath, and not because she's that romantic side of it. So it's so fascinating. And it's again, it's just going to be a really useful tool framework for us to you just try and help people feel happy and tapping into their strengths and-

Denise:                 Harmony, understanding all the good things. So again, if you haven't done the quiz, it's at denisedt.com/quiz or the cheat sheets slash cheat, you can go through that whole workshop. But I also want to invite you to when that course opens to come and join us in the course because there's so many different modules about not only understanding your own archetype, but you get access to all of them. So you can see what do your connect to clients need to buy from you? What do your nurture clients need to hear, to feel safe and reassured? What do your accumulators need to see on your sales page to feel like they're safe enough to buy from you, all of those things, how you build your team, how you create harmony in your family, that's all included in the course. So make sure you sign up for the workshop and you'll get all of the details for it and keep an eye on that for sure.

                                And we would love to hear from you too, like definitely send us a DM or do a post and tag us about what you got out of this episode, what your partner is? Because I see some clashes sometimes if someone's like an accumulator celebrity for example, can have real clashes and two mavericks together could be really interesting too. Two romantics could be interesting where like nothing kind of gets done because you just want to chill all the time. So tell us, we want to know how you guys make it work for you. And if you're not in a partnership, Hey, guess what? You could use this to put together an internet dating profile, see which archetypes you'd want to have relationship with. Okay. Well that's it for me. And there's just one final thought after this last break. See you in a sec.

Carrie:                   Hi, I'm Carrie, I'm based in Sheffield in the UK. I was not surprised that I was a connector, but I didn't resonate until I properly read through everything. I'm like quite an introvert. I'm one of those outgoing introverts, like the idea of like making connections is a bit kind of like, oh God, but once you get me in my flow, I'm that kind of connector, which is very much about sharing information. It's about teaching. It's about giving you the best of what I have to offer.

Denise:                 Hey, welcome back. Thanks for this episode. It was such a fun one to do with Mark. And my final thought for today is a quote by Confucius. He said, "Be in harmony yet, be different." And that's just such a good way to end is that you're totally valid to double down on your personality and find the ways to be in harmony with other people by understanding their differences as well. So hope to hear from you about your archetypes and have an amazing time and have an amazing week. And I will see you in next week's episode of Chill and Prosper. Thank you.