Hey, and welcome to another episode of Chill & Prosper. I'm thrilled to spend this time with you and have these juicy conversations about money, about marketing, about mindset. Super fun. And today we're talking about whether or not you should invest in coaching and mastermind programs.

                                                And I've done a similar episode to this, but this is a slightly different one because sometimes it's a timing thing. And I've got some questions to ask you about, when would be a good timing, but also how to make the decision when something comes up and how not to invest out of FOMO, but also how not to miss the opportunity out of scarcity and being scared.

                                                So I have been in business for quite a while, and I've invested in so many coaching and mastermind program. So I'm talking about these big coaching programs where it might be, you get some one-on-one time, but maybe it's group stuff, and sometimes they have retreats in them and all of those kind of things.

                                                So when do you know if that's worth it, and when are you investing because frankly someone sold you into it? And how do you know the difference, right? How do you know the difference? So this is a really juicy conversation. I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in these programs. Some have been good, some have been not so good.

                                                So let's talk about different stages of business and what you might need. So if you're at the start of your business and you're just starting out, one of the big mindset hurdles that you come across there is just that it's so lonely. And if you don't have any other friends in business, or you don't have a business bestie, or you don't have a lot of peers, joining a mastermind or a group coaching program is such a great way to make friends.

                                                And like I'm super connected. I'm a super connected online person. I have so many friends all around the world who are entrepreneurs. Some I've never met in real life, and they're friends. Online friends are real friends. And I believe this is a massive part of my success.

                                                Not only now, but in those early days because it showed me that it was possible for me. And if you're not surrounded by entrepreneurs who are not in these conversations talking about money, mindset, and confidence and different sharing, different strategies, you're going to feel isolated and lonely, but also it's really easy to get derailed by your resistance.

                                                And this is where people go back to jobs. This is where they quit their business dreams and it's just a side hustle forever. So at that side of the business, I would look for group coaching programs where you can be around people who are in a similar stage of business to you, and really look at what you need.

                                                Do you need a lot of accountability? Do you need a lot of step by step, or is motivation enough for you? Because I've seen those big, like famous gurus programs and you get no step by step, you get no interaction with them, and it's a little bit more for people who know what they're doing already.

                                                So sometimes that means that it might not be a super sexy program. It might be a bit more of a nuts and bolts kind of program, and I've been in those two where they have lots of resources and here's how you do the thing, and here's how you do this really basic thing, and here's how this is what systems and processes and tools to use in that.

                                                Rather than like a big sexy program that's just a bit like, hey, just manifest it. You go, yeah, but how? What do I need to do? So that could be a question before you join a mastermind is how much information is there for you? How much useful information is there for you to figure out what you need to do next? And how specific is that?

                                                You can ask people who are in the program already, like how practical it is, how much step by step, how much hand holding there can be in that. Because I think sometimes like at the start, spending tons and tons of money in a program that's actually not going to teach you how to do anything is not the best bang for your buck.

                                                So here's a question though, should you get into a lot of debt at the start of your business for things like that? Now I just want to share one thing and I'm not saying you should do it, but there was a program that I wanted to join and it was 5,000 pounds, I think, because I was living in the UK, and I got a business loan to pay for that because I did not have the money just lying around to do it.

                                                And I went into it with my eyes wide open and it was a program that would teach you how to start and run a business. So I felt like it would be like, I went into it with my eyes wide open saying, "Okay, well, to make this money back, I'll need to get X many new clients."

                                                So if you're at the start and you need to get clients, does that mastermind or program, is it going to teach you how to get more sales or is it going to be a nice to have, and am I going to be able to get that return back? And then you can make that decision of, will I put it on a credit card or, for me getting that loan was worth it, or do they have a payment plan?

                                                So this is where you have to be super honest about what's going on for you right now.

                                                If you are down to your last $10 and your kids are going to starve, no, I just don't think it's the right thing for you. You need to get stability first. And so sometimes even people at the start of their business stay in a job, do it on the side. That's totally fine.

                                                So once you've know what you do and you know what your business is, and you've got that step by step, what's the next reason that you might want to join a mastermind or a group coaching program?

                                                So this could be, then you realize that you've hit a plateau and you need some nuance, you need some new strategies. So like for example, when people join my money bootcamp, I'm not telling them how to get clients. I'm assuming that most of them, they're not right at the very, very basics of that.

                                                Some people do and they just want that inspiration of being around other entrepreneurs and then they figure it out or they've got resistance figuring it out. But, so you might go, wow, okay, I know how to do my thing, but now I need to work on a mindset piece.

                                                So for me money mindset could be a really good thing for that. Or you need to be in a mastermind with people doing the thing that you want to do. So it could be writing a book, for example. You know how to write a book, you just sit and write and you write 50,000 words and you just do it one by one.

                                                But if you are not around people who are normalizing that conversation of being an author, it could be very, like you could have a lot of resistance around it. So sometimes you join a mastermind or a coaching program to normalize a conversation and to see that it's possible. That's why people join money bootcamp.

                                                They want to be in an environment where people talk honestly and openly about money that we have normalizing conversations about success and about big numbers. So that could be a really big thing for you too. Again, it could be an income level. You go, oh wow, I really want to get to $100,000. So I'm going to join a program that is about cracking $100,000. Then everyone's in that same program together.

                                                And there's tons of programs like that. But you might go, I want one that has a lot of accountability. Cool. That's a good criteria for you to look at. Or I want one that has a mix of people at all different stages of business, or I want with different people from around the world, or I want people who are similar to age to me.

                                                So I actually, this is really important before you join any program like that is to really think about who that coach or teacher is attracting into the mastermind. And so I joined one where I absolutely loved the coach, I loved the mentor, but I joined the program and I was like, "I don't really love these people."

                                                They were lovely people, but they were in very different industries to me and they were much more conservative than me. So I was like, "Culture fit is important too." I love swearing, for example. I'm a swear bear. And so I joined this program and there would be like a husband and wife team who were landscapers, and they had a six figure landscaping business that they wanted to make it a million dollar landscaping business.

                                                So we're all working on getting to a million dollars. But I remember that... And they were lovely people. But I remember the husband, he was like, "Denise, we just think you are so sassy and we love what you do and like lucky B." He wouldn't say bitch. He was like, "Lucky B is just like the cuter. We just think you're neat." And I just was like, "Oh my God, how cute."

                                                But like, they're not the kind of people that you'd go out for drinks with and go dancing with all night long. So culture fit is absolutely an important consideration in joining a program. Do you not care? Like, do you just want to learn from lots of different people or do you want something else out of that?

                                                Do you want fun and friendship and friendly competitiveness and exchange of ideas because they're in similar industries? It's a really important consideration. I've got a couple of other things for you to think about straight after this break.

Natasha Bray:                    Hi everyone. I'm Natasha Bray and I live in Wales in the UK. I'm a success mastery coach and healer for women who want to unlock their ultimate up level. I joined money boot camp in August 2017, when I was at a really low point in my life.

                                                I was stuck around three K months in my business and I'd just become a single mom to a 10 month old baby. I'd followed Denise for a while and I was really attracted to her laid back energy. Since joining bootcamp my life is now unrecognizable.

                                                My biggest money block was not being able to have money and love. And now I have an overflow of both. The same month I joined money bootcamp a new man was literally delivered to my doorstep. We're still together now and I've grown a seven figure business in that time too.

                                                What I most love is the community, being surrounded by other women, achieving big things with money is so inspiring and it shows you what is possible for you too. Over the next year, I'm excited to be moving into my million dollar home with my partner and to be able to impact millions whilst making millions. I'm forever grateful to Denise and the other lucky bees for the part that they've played in this journey.

Denise Duffield...:            Welcome back. We are talking about investing in coaching programs and mastermind programs and I want to share another cautionary tale. As I said, I waited until I got into the program and then realized that the people weren't super fun and I needed that. I needed some fun.

                                                But I also joined a different program where I realized that the logistics actually wouldn't work for me. So you might think this is really obvious, but with ADHD I can sometimes be a little bit impulsive and not always look at the details. So I can buy because I feel like it, or it seems like a good idea at the time or I like the energy of the coach or the mentor. And so I don't even stop to think about how it would work logistically.

                                                So I live in Australia. Can't you tell mate? I've got a Aussie accent, mate. That was very cockney. I'm also like a quarter English. But I would often join programs in America and they would have four retreats a year. And I just didn't factor that in. I didn't realize, okay, so the program is X amount of dollars and four trips to America every year is also going to be X amount of dollars.

                                                I just didn't think through if that was going to work for me at the time. And I knew I wanted to have a baby. And I remember there was one of the days where I thought, oh God, I just don't feel like going to America tomorrow. And I was like, "I just want to stay home and nest and really work on this baby making plan that we have."

                                                And something really funny happened. I went and got my hair blow dried at this hair salon. And I was sitting there and I was a bit bloated because I didn't realize I was allergic to so many things back then. And the lady, "Oh, so you're traveling to America tomorrow." I said, "Yeah, I am."

                                                And she goes, "It must be a bit uncomfortable to travel." And I was like, "No, I love flying." And she goes, "But when you've got a belly full of arms and legs," and I went, "Oh my God, she thinks I'm pregnant." And I went, "Oh my God, I'm never going to be able to come here ever again." And then I went, "I got to get pregnant as soon as I can."

                                                But I was flying the next day and I was like, "I do not feel like going all across the other side of the world, dealing with jet lag when I just want to be home and getting pregnant basically."

                                                So the next day, oh my God, I'd never talk about this stuff. But the next morning I was like, "Let's have that one more time before I go." And I got on the bus and the train because the whole transport thing broke down. They were like, "You have to get on a bus. The train's broken."

                                                And closer, closer I got to the airport I went, "I don't want to go. I don't want to go. I just want to be home." And you know what, I was pregnant. I got pregnant that morning. Anyway, that's a complete different aside.

                                                The idea of it at the start when I signed up, did not work for me in my family situation after that, and especially once I had a baby. But sometimes you don't think to ask or you don't think to look at the logistics.

                                                Another thing for me is that another program I joined the group coaching sessions were at 6:30. I was like, "I can get up at 6:30." But when the time zone changed and we spring forward and America sprung back, that's a two hour time, like that changes two hours, so it was 4:30. And again, I just didn't think through the logistics of it.

                                                So it's okay to ask questions, not to feel pressured into buying a program just because they've got a hard sell, and like literally think, will this work for me? Will this work? Is it a good culture fit? Is it a good personality fit? Is it a good lifestyle fit for me? Do the logistics work out?

                                                So I know they're just really bitty things. And again, you might like totally have done this already, but I had to learn this a lot of times. I had to learn this many, many times through trial and error.

                                                So is it the right time? And sometimes people use that as an excuse not to make a leap, not to invest in themselves, but genuinely, sometimes it's not the right time. Sometimes it is the right time and you just have to jump. Is it the right investment right now? Is it appropriate for where I'm at in my business?

                                                Just because you pay someone $100,000 does not mean that they're going to make you money. And me and my friends I've heard this from a lot of people, they get excited by this big sexy coach, and they think that, that in itself is going to make them more money, and it doesn't.

                                                So is it the right investment for you right now? Is it something that you could see yourself making back? Are you clear right on what that return on investment is going to be? And I say this to people when they join money bootcamp, which is like, $2,000.

                                                I'm like, "So if you are selling something for $250, do you think you can make that back with eight extra clients?" And then if that's a yes, then that's an easy decision for you. If you don't think I can give you enough nuances to make an extra couple of clients, then that's not a good investment.

                                                And sometimes it's really easy to get sucked in at an event or you just fall in love with someone or you think that they're going to be the answer to your problems and you just have to be discerning about that. Is it the right investment for me right now? Am I scared but it's a good scared? Okay, cool. I can make that work.

                                                Does it just not feel good in my body and I'm investing out of desperation or FOMO that, that might not be a good decision to make? And then is it the right person? What do I want to learn from that person? Because sometimes it's worth it. Sometimes I've worked with people again where I didn't like their community necessarily, but I got something out of the way that they embodied the program.

                                                I've people said they've joined programs and they go, "God, it was horrible. But I learned so many priceless lessons about not what not to do." So sometimes you just want to see inside someone's business, you want to be a little bit closer to them, you want to be able to ask them intimate questions, and I've done that. I've joined people's programs just so I could get the GOs on how they run their business. And that was worth it. That was worth it for me.

                                                And then are you going to need what... Like what you really need right now? And so that is all about discernment. You might realize you need a skill. You might realize you need motivation. You might need accountability or you might need friendship and connection. You might need to see inside someone's business like me, because you're nosy.

                                                You might just need permission. You might want to learn from a coach who has a similar background to you because you want to see how they've done it. You want to have that validation that it's possible for you. You might work with someone who's completely opposite to you because they're teaching you something you don't know, and they're filling in a gap for you.

                                                So there's a lot of discernment around this I think, but remember no one's can do the work for you. No amount of investment will just magically happen. It doesn't mean you have to do every everything perfectly. Like I'll join people's programs sometimes and never really do the course, but I get enough out of their community or I get a couple of calls that is useful.

                                                So you don't have to have perfectionism around it, but just have discernment. And I would love to hear from you as well. Like I love hearing the cautionary tales. I love hearing things that haven't worked out because then it's great information for all of us, about how we can improve, how we can better have boundaries in our communities, how we can better set things up for accessibility, for example, for different learning styles.

                                                And so sometimes there's some self-forgiveness around that. Like maybe you have invested a ton of money and you didn't get the return, and it can be really hard and that can burn you for a little bit and make you wary about investing again.

                                                But it's safe for you to make decisions, make good decisions and have discernment around where you invest your time and energy. All right. So hopefully you've got some good nuggets out of that, but don't go away. I've got one more final thought for you straight after this quick break.

Gemma James:                 Hi, my name is Gemma James. I'm a law of attraction and personal development coach for female entrepreneurs from the South of England and the UK. And I joined Denise's money bootcamp, breakthrough package last year. And I have to say, it's got to be one of the most incredible investments that I've ever made, because not only have you got the wonderful training from Denise actually in the boot camp, but you've got the support from the other boot campers, from Denise, from everybody else in the community.

                                                And that Facebook community really is my favorite place to go on the internet because it's somewhere where you can just go if you're feeling a little bit down, feeling a little bit flat, if you're struggling, if you feel a new block come up, even if you don't want to be taking part and you're a little bit of a lurker, I promise you, you're still going to get something out of it.

                                                And going through boot camp in 2020, it's been a crazy odd year. So I'm sure you're probably aware. And it's just allowed me to have that place to go through. And going through money boot camp has cleared so many blocks and so many limiting beliefs for me that it's allowed me to have my best month ever in my business, but it's also allowed me to actually course correct a little bit.

                                                It's given me the confidence. It's given me the ability to see that my business can be easy and I can run my business and I can make money in the way that I want to.

Denise Duffield...:            Hi, gorgeous, it's Anesia and our final thought for today is around hiring people. Just a really quick one because I heard this recently, someone said, "Hiring people is so exploitative. I should be able to do everything myself." And it's just such an interesting way of looking at it because I mean, you'd probably be a great boss. So why not offer someone a chance to earn money and to work with you?

                                                Your hiring block might be, I'll be so responsible for the people. And so it could be, it's safe for me to hire people who are easy to manage. You might be worried about hiring people because then what if you have to fire them? What if it doesn't work out? Or you might have a team at the moment that you need to fire and your message could be, it's safe for me to fire people. It's safe for me to have boundaries with my team.

                                                And so, just ponder on that a little bit, because I know recently for me, hiring people has created so much bandwidth and I have screwed it up so many times and I've just gotten better at finding the right person and managing them and not being cheap and not finding someone that I have to train myself.

                                                So think about that, who you want to hire next, and that's just my little thought for you is, it's safe for me to hire people. It's safe for me to grow my team. It's safe for me to get help. It's safe for me to be the boss. It's safe for me not to do everything myself. That could be your message that you need to hear.

                                                All right, lovely. Make sure you rate, review and subscribe. I don't care which one of those you do. Share this episode if you enjoyed it and I will see you next week for another episode of Chill & Prosper. All right. Bye.