Speaker 1:                           Start your business for the freedom of time. Now you're tired of the hustle and grind. There's got to be a better way. It's time to listen to Chill & Prosper. Welcome to Chill & Prosper. You're ready to Chill & Prosper with Denise Duffield-Thomas.

Denise Duffield...:            Hey, gorgeous and welcome to Chill & Prosper. How exciting to spend this time together? You know what I love? I love when people send me pictures of where they are listening to this episode. So if you're listening in your car, send me a picture, send me a selfie. I'm @denisedt on all social media and tweet me up, Facebook me, Instagram me, I love seeing where you're listening to this episode. And of course, I always love hearing your ahas as well, because I'm a Virgo. I love being of service. I love hearing that it had practical applications for you. Okay. So today, we are talking about dealing with default customer payments without feeling like a jerk or a bitch or a big meany person. Now, default customers, this is people who owe you money, who miss payments, who default on their payment plans, who ghost you, who owe you money.

                                                Right. Really it's about that. And I've actually seen people leave their businesses over this. So this is particularly hard, if you've got that nurturing personality, if you hate setting boundaries, if you're really scared about saying no or asking for money from people. I know I get that and it can be really painful, but this is also just a normal part of being in business. It really doesn't have to be really super stressful. I have done this in so many different ways, I have had... Oh my God, I can't even imagine how many default payments we've had because we probably would've... If I've sold almost 8,000 Money Bootcamps, 8,000 manifesting courses and some of those have had payment plans. We've had probably thousands of default payments that we've dealt with over the last couple of years.

                                                So I'm not an expert, I would say in this, I'm just someone who it's like, yeah, it sucks and we deal with it. Okay. So the first part is even before you've had any default customers, I want you just to think a little bit about how that would make you feel and what the fear of it is stopping you from achieving. So you might be procrastinating launching your next course, because it's just one of the fears that you have. You might not even acknowledge this as a fear, it might just be one of those little bandwidth ones that's hanging around at the back. Or it's something that you've actually acknowledged of like, oh my God, what would I do if I had to ask someone for money? What would I have to do? Oh my God, I'd be so scared.

                                                You might be resisting offering payment plans in your business because of this and that's fine. You don't have to offer a payment plan, but it does often make your product service course more accessible to people, who can't afford the upfront payment. And it can increase sales because not everyone has the money sat there to work with you in full. All right. So it can be an amazing thing offering those payment plans. Now, when should you not be in this situation? Okay. So there's a couple of things you can put in place as I said, to make sure that this is less painful than it needs to be right off the top, before it even happens. And one of those things is to really tighten up your procedures, tighten up your terms and conditions. I know you just went dry as a bone.

                                                I understand. It can be super unsexy. It can be so unsexy thinking about terms and conditions. Let me do it with in terms and conditions, procedures. Terms and conditions, terms, TNCs. So this is the problem, right? If you don't have these things in place, when someone defaults their payment with you, sometimes people are cheeky and they'll just be like, well, you didn't have anything writing. And so you have to be super clear. So one thing that happened to me in my early days that you can totally learn from is we had a payment plan and it was like, I don't know, you could pay 2,000 upfront or you could pay 297 over four payments. And one of the girls defaulted on her second payment and she was like, oh, well, I thought it was $2,000 or 297.

                                                And I was like, no, it was pretty clear, it was four payments of 297. Why would I give you the option to pay 300 bucks or $2,000? It wasn't an either or. It was the full amount or you can pay it off in installments, but it wasn't super clear and spelled out. So you have to be really, really clear. If you are offering payment plans, how long between the payment plans? Is it every week? Is it every 30 days? Is it the same day of the month? Things like that will absolutely help you and just not freak you out. Okay. So tighten up those terms and conditions, tighten up those procedures, be really clear on what it is. Now, some people have a business where you don't get all the payment up front, and that's just how it's built into the business model. And by this I'm talking about websites, for example, a lot of website designers take a deposit front and then they might have a staged payment.

                                                So it's like halfway through, it's a certain amount and then at the end is a certain amount. And I've seen website designers who don't get that final amount before they deliver the website. And those people go, thanks for the website and then they just don't pay. And then you are in the horrible position of going, wow, do I try and hack into their website and delete it all or what's going to happen? So when it comes to things like that, we often make sure that... For us on the other side, we go, yeah, cool, we are not going to make that final payment until that final thing's delivered, but we're absolutely happy to pay a deposit and we are happy to pay staged kind of things. Just because on the other side of it, some suppliers are flaky as well.

                                                Right. So just be really clear on when they pay, how they pay, what they get if they pay and what they don't get, if they don't pay. Okay. So do you have consequences for them not pay paying? Do they lose access to things? Do they lose access to your course? Do you not have any more coaching sessions with them until they're up to date? All of that stuff you can think about ahead of time and put into your procedures, put into your terms and conditions. But the truth is that most of us learn through trial and error. So every time you have an annoying, horrible client, you can learn from that and you can tighten things up a little bit more. So let's just talk about what happens then if you do have default customer payments. So what I've learned actually is so many people who default it's like, they don't even realize that they've done it.

                                                It is because their credit card expired, they lost their credit card, it was just a simple error. And so sometimes when that happens and someone defaults with you, you can go into this absolute spiral thinking, oh my God, they hate me. They hate the course, they don't want to do it. This is going to be super awkward conversation. This is just going to be the worst, blah, blah. And all it would take is to go, "Hey, listen, your payment defaulted." Because they might not even know. That might have gone into their spam folder, you might not have any systems set up where they get a notification. It could just be really simple just to have that conversation and just be like, "Hey, just to let you know your payment defaulted here's where can fix that up or here's what happens now."

                                                So just assume that it's just a really simple mistake before you do anything and take any of that emotion out of it. And in fact, it's really good if you can... If stuff does come up for you, which it probably will. Do some tapping on it, do some EFT on it, see what money blocks it's bringing up for you. If you're in Money Bootcamp, that's where you'd go to the money memories, exercise. See what you can mine from this experience of the horrible feelings it brings up for you of asking someone for money. And just assume that they want to pay, they just don't know that it's in default. It could be really as simple as that but of course it's not. A lot of stuff comes up for people.

                                                So I've got some more tips after the break. Don't freak out, this is just such a normal rite of passage in business. And there's some really easy things you can put in place. So it doesn't have to freak you out, but also, so you can give yourself permission to make more money. All right, gorgeous. I will be straight back after this break.

Speaker 3:                           OMG, Denise, a huge congrats on the launch of your new podcast. Your book Get Rich, Lucky Bitch, changed so much in my world, especially around creating my upgrade plan. In your book, you talked about the importance of creating a first class list, a list where you'd add what you like in your life, if money wasn't an issue. If you had choice, you then suggested to me to create an economy list, a list which is a complete opposite to first class. Anything that annoyed me, embarrassed me, made me feel poor connected to the economy class. This exercise got me thinking on how I was living life, Denise, what relationship I had with money, but it equally excited me about what I could do to upgrade my life. I started making small upgrades in my life, a new office chair, a new hoodie, even starting small, had massive shifts for me.

                                                Why? Because each time I upgraded my life, it helped me to change my story around money but at the same time, I was sending out a clear message to the world that it's safe to have these things. It's okay to have these things, equally worth having these things. Over the years, I started to incrementally increase my upgrades from my first class list. 18 months ago, I had a full body lift, I then only stay at five star resorts. This year, I bought a purse that cost me $180 versus a $10 Kmart ones. I also bought a $4,500 British bulldog puppy, I thought would only ever stay on my vision board. And I finally bought my first commission piece of art this year from [inaudible] Norton and I paid cash for it too. Denise, you taught me that your new way of being becomes your minimal standard. So thank you Denise, for your wealth of knowledge, your awesomeness, but also for your friendship. Much love, Ang.

Denise Duffield...:            Hey, gorgeous. It's Denise again and thank you for sticking with this episode, because I know it can be really unsexy to talk about things like this that bring up stuff for you. That they don't feel good, all the things. So we talked about just before the break, taking the emotion out of it, assuming people just want to pay. And even better, if you can create an automated process, so you don't chicken out, right? A lot of systems, a lot of payment systems, you can set this up. That as soon as someone defaults, you can customize an email to them that says, "Hey, listen, your payment is defaulted and here's what you do." So it could be a little link that they go and update their credit card details themselves or they can just make a one off payment, whatever it is. This is so worth investing in.

                                                If you want a big business, if you want lots of customers and you don't want to have to deal with this admin every time, then it is just something that you have to do. Right. If you are doing high end coaching and it's just a couple of people, it's fine, right? Every business model has customer service implications. If you aspire though, to have a bigger business that serves a lot of people, like for example, mine, we serve a lot of people. Then this is just one of those things that you can just tick off. It's a big girl panties thing. You might not be a girl. That's fine. You might not wear panties, but it's just the expression of putting on your big girl panties is just doing those things that feel a bit weird and tough.

                                                They don't have to be. Okay. So if you can upgrade to a system that just sends out those automatic reminders, it is so much easier. And then you don't have to freak out. Because as I said, 80% of our default payments are just total, just random admin things that could just be fixed really easily by someone clicking a link. Okay. And you can be really nice about it as well. The email could just be like, "Hey, just to let you know your payment didn't clear this month and here's what you can do next." You don't have to be like... I don't know, some people cut their customers off straight away. We don't. And that's just our style, our company culture, as long as people work with us, we're happy to keep their access to Money Bootcamp.

                                                We're happy to keep them in the group as long as they're having that communication. And you can be very gentle and reassuring as well it's like saying, and here's what happens now. Now you pay me my money. Right. A really cool tip that helps so much. You might have heard me talk about it before. Having a fake assistant is super important, if you don't have a real assistant. And some people think this is really inauthentic, and I actually want you to see it from both sides. So sometimes it's hard to be the nurturing, loving coach or consultant or a service provider and also be the bad cop, be the enforcer. That can be two different hats sometimes. Right? So if you don't have someone on your team who can take that for you, having someone who's a separate... No fake assistant.

                                                Honestly it acts as a shield for you, so you can then show up for them and not ruin the relationship with them, but it also gives them accountability for the other person too. Then they don't feel embarrassed that they've disappointed you or done something wrong. Honestly, it works for everybody. It is absolutely win-win, it is not a shitty thing to do it at all. So I had Dave from accounts and I had Sabrina from accounts. And often what I found in that first year is that people would respond very differently to the two genders, to the two apparent genders. Like Dave could be a little bit more professional and abrupt and it was just a really interesting gender dynamics kind of thing. So you might not feel comfortable about this, but I think it can be really great just to have that extra layer of shielding from both of you having to have that conversation.

                                                That being said, you might be someone who's just straight up and just go, Hey, bitch better have my money. Where's my money. Pay me what you owe me. And you can listen to the Rihanna song before you have that conversation. And that's cool too. It's also okay, just to say, "Hey, you're in default. Here's how you can fix that up." But if you don't want to, that's fine, your system can be the bad cop, your automated process, your terms and conditions can be the bad cop and your... Yeah. That's it or your fake assistant can be the bad cop. That's totally fine too. All righty. So as I said, learn from everything, tighten up those procedures, tighten it all up.

                                                One thing that we did a couple of the years ago is that we outsourced this to an agency. And we might bring it back in house at some point, but it was a really cool experience just to outsource it to someone, but also to outsource it in a way that was still in integrity around us and our culture as a company, to make sure that we're still being reassuring and kind with people.

                                                And you can totally do this in a way that still feels nice, but it's not... I think the money lesson that I want to impart to you is it's not mean to ask for your money. It's not mean to have a contract with somebody. It's not mean to have expectations for them to pay you for what you've given them. I serve, I deserve might be your rallying cry for this. It's like, I've given you the thing and our commitment, our contract, our agreement is that you give me money in return for that. And it's totally okay to ask for that. So you might be curious, for us sometimes we've had up to 20% of our payments fail in months. And again, as I said, most of those are people it's like, once you have those big numbers like we do, where it could be hundreds and hundreds of payments every month that's been processed.

                                                So many of those, like 20%, it's just like, ah, yeah, sorry. It expired. I lose my card, I reckon twice a year. So I always get chased up twice a year. It's like, you forget all the things that are attached to all of your cards and you forget to update people. So that could be 20% of those. Right? And so what are the other ones? 20% of our overall payments. And as I said, 80%, I'm doing so much math today, 80% of those 20%. But what about the other ones? So unfortunately there will be people who buy your course or your service or whatever it is with no intention of paying. And this happens again and again, I want to just pull back the curtains a little bit. When I meet up with my fellow seven figure million dollar business owners, and someone will say, "Oh God, there's this person who owes me money."

                                                Oh, what's their name? Oh, they owe me money too. I've had it where 10 people out of 20 people were owed money by the same person. So there will be people who they course hop, they join up to masterminds, they try and get as much as they can and then they either ask for a refund or they default payments and they have no intention of paying you. Okay. So at some point with those people, you just have to let them go. You write that off and you have to just be okay with the fact that it is a rite of passage in business. It doesn't mean anything about you. It doesn't mean you're a bad person. It doesn't mean anything. It's just that there are some people who are like that and that sucks, right? It does suck. There will be people who you realize should never have joined your program in the place.

                                                So I've seen this with other people too, they go... Especially if they have sales people, sometimes I have friends who have sales people, who sell their programs for them, high end programs. And then they go, wow, that person should never have happened. I've done it before where I've had a red flag about someone and they go, "Oh, I really want to join your program, but I don't have any money to do it, but I'm going to put it on a credit card." And most of the time, if I catch those people with an interaction, I'll say, you know what? It's not the right time, go buy my book or it's just not your right time to join because inevitably they're the one who will default. And I would say too, sometimes learning from this is tightening up your marketing, not even just your terms and procedures, but saying, this is not right for you, if blah, blah, blah.

                                                And my friend Catherine Hawking did this. She used to have a launch service and she would say to people, "Don't join if you don't have a team, because I'm going to give you so many things do. And if you have to do them all yourself, it's going to be really overwhelming." I'll say to people, "Don't join Money Bootcamp, if it's your last dollars, because I'm going to suggest that you upgrade other things in your life." This isn't a miracle program that's going to solve everything in your life and don't join if it's going to create drama and chaos for you. So that could just be if you're getting lots of default payments and they're for a very similar reason. Go back and just look at your marketing, just to make sure that those people aren't pressured to join when it's not right for them.

                                                Or... Yeah. You're just not attracting them in the first place, if that makes sense. So for us now in Money Bootcamp, I really work on attracting people who are self reliant, who are self aware, who love learning about themselves, who value self knowledge. Because the ones who ask for refunds are the ones who are like, "Oh, Denise, fix everything in my life." And I'm like, "I'm not going to to do that." That's not what the program is. So we had to tighten that up a little bit in our marketing. Okay. So let's finish up. Default payments are inevitable. They're unavoidable. Especially if you want a bigger business, they will follow a very predictable process. You'll see the same numbers come up again and again. You can prevent them a little bit by tightening things up. You can prevent them by looking at your marketing and attracting the right people.

                                                You can prevent you freaking out about them by creating the systems in the first place, writing those emails. So they just [inaudible] responses, delegating it to someone on your team, having a fake assistant if you need to, but it's okay for you to get them. It's okay for you to deal with them. It doesn't have to be stressful and it can be just a normal, easy thing in your business. So I would love to hear your ahas, or if you have any questions about how it works, but I actually a resource for you. It's a book called Awkward Money Conversations Made Easy. It's a free ebook, if you go to denisedt.com/awkward, you can get that. And there's lots of scripts in there about dealing with lots of different awkward situations. Like, can I pick your brain? Can I have a discount? All those things. There's a lot of scripts that you can just copy and paste and make them your own. And it doesn't have to be hard. All right. My lovely, gorgeous. I will see you for one more final thought after this short break.

Speaker 4:                           Hi everyone. I'm Jo McKee. I live in Caloundra and I'm a marketer who works with brands that are making a positive impact on the world. I joined Money Bootcamp in 2020, after I think nine years of watching Denise grow it. I knew that what Denise teaches is effective, but I kept thinking it was effective only for other people. Making the first payment to enroll to back myself was scary. Since, joining Bootcamp my biggest shift has been erasing the fear that I would have to start all over again financially again. I was able to trust that what I would built will last. I also felt if I wasn't working really, really hard, then what I did, wasn't valuable enough to others. I carried a lot of fear, after joining Bootcamp, I found an incredible group of lucky bees who support each other, regardless of whether they're going for the first 10K a month or their first million dollar month, because it's not about the actual dollars so much as our perception.

                                                The biggest things I got out of Bootcamp and still do is that the income I create will continue to increase, but I have just as much right to be in a particular lane as anybody else and that the assets I build up will last. For anyone considering Bootcamp, I say, go for it. Even if you're scared, even if you're not sure whether the investment will be worthwhile, trust yourself, back yourself, give yourself the gift of this investment and watch as you enter a whole new space of generosity, confidence, ease, and financial growth. I've created a strong vision of where my agency will be in three years time and it's already starting to become reality.

Denise Duffield...:            Hi, and welcome back. My final thought today is about discounts. Discounts, this is such an interesting topic and I see it so much in business and I see people have massive big debates about it. And the online world swings between never give a discount to you should give discounts, and you should do pay what you want discounts and all these different things. And so I've written a lot about this and actually if you go to my blog and type in the word discounts, so you'll see a lot of the things I've written about, but I just want to say one thing that could be helpful this week. It's safe for you just to say no to request for discounts. It's safe for you to just say, no, I don't have a discount right now or no, actually I don't have a scholarship on that right now.

                                                And just leave it at that without having to justify it, without having to apologize even for it. But just to say no, I don't offer discounts. Thanks. And that's cool too. So I just want you to ponder on where that's showing up for you at the moment, because that can also be a real sign that you need to solidify some of your inner thoughts. Maybe you've got some imposter syndrome about one of your services or one of your products. And that's the one that people always ask you for a discount on. Well, that's a really great sign you need to do some work on that and it could be work around your self worth. It's worth it. I'm worth it at full price. It's safe for me to make a profit. It's safe for me to have my time and my energy recognized.

                                                It's safe, my creativity to be recognized. It could be, it's safe for me to make passive income. It's safe for me to make money on things that are easy for me. Because they're all the little chinks in your armor where that could be coming in and that's where people are asking for discounts. Just to reflect the fact that you feel bad about it, that you feel bad about charging for that thing. So that's a really positive thing, right? If you work through it, it's a positive thing, because it's just a really clear sign that you need to do some little bit more work around your self worth. And obviously that's something I can help you with, right? I've got a big workshop on that, if you go to denisedt.com/blocks, I talk all about seven money blocks and discounting is just one of them. All right. So it's safe for you to make heaps of money. It's safe for you to say no to discounts. And I will speak to you next week for another juicy topic of Chill & Prosper. Bye.

Speaker 1:                           Thanks for listening to Chill & Prosper. Tell your friends to Chill & Prosper, review, and subscribe. We hope you had a very good time.