EPISODE 257

Money, power & relationships: money mindset in love

Money and relationships - it’s a juicy, complicated mix.

Continuing this month’s theme of Love and Money, in this week’s podcast I’m answering your biggest questions about how money impacts love, partnership, and power dynamics.

Inside, we cover:

✨ Working with your spouse (and why it’s not always easy!)
✨ What to do about inheritances, wills, and legacy planning
✨ How to navigate very different money mindsets in a partnership
✨ Why love and money can co-exist - even if it takes boundaries and honesty
✨ What happens when you’re the breadwinner (and the resentment that can creep in)

Listen now to learn how you can create relationships that work for you. 

xx Denise

P.S. Since we’re exploring Love + Money this month, I’ve created a free Love + Money Meditation Pack to help you soften old patterns around money, power, and relationships. It includes guided meditations, affirmations, and a simple journal to support healthier dynamics with both love and money.

Click here to download our free copy.

Transcript

Prefer to read?  Here is the transcript for this episode:

Hi, hi, hi. It's Denise here. And today's episode. We are talking about partners and money.

This is such a juicy topic. How do you deal with being the breadwinner? How do you deal with partnerships? How do you deal with working with your spouse? How do you deal with someone who has a very different money mindset than you? So let me just say straight away. This is such a big pain point for so many people. 

As you know, I have my money boot camp, which I've been running for 13 years or so. We've had 10,000 people through that program, and I would say it's a very, very common issue that comes up where people go, how do I get my partner on board? How do I deal with my partner's negative money mindset?

Sometimes it's how do I even, like, find a partner who has a good money mindset? Or even how do I find a partner? Because I have to choose between love and money. It's just such a juicy topic. Love and money. So let me, I've got some questions that have come through, too. So I want to be able to answer those.

But just know that this is a very juicy topic. And if you are in money boot camp, we have a whole lesson around this. Okay? So go and check that out. Partners and money. And we can talk about it in the live call as well. And if you are not in money boot camp and you want to know how to deal with your money mindset, come and join us.

Okay, so denisedt.com/bootcamp. All right. So this one is from Emma Lovell. She's saying I want an update on how you and Mark work together. I'd love to hear about more about how you manage money in your marriage and business. So, we've had a real evolution, right? So Mark and I have been together since we're really, really young.

I was, 22 when we first got together. He was 19. Oh my God. And we always had something in common right from the start. Is that we we both have very big ambitions. We're like, one day we're going to be rich and we're going to, you know, do all this. Ever since we first got together.

But that doesn't mean we're always on the same page around money. And I remember early on, even the way he said money was like full of lack. I can't even explain it. But the energy of why he said money was, was, well, we both were raised by single parents, but with very different, approaches. You know, his mum was, very frugal and quite good with money in savings, very careful about money.

And I would say probably a little bit more on the pessimistic side around money. And my mom, also a single parent, not so great with, I know she was probably quite frugal with money in a way to always made it work, but was very optimistic about money. So we had a very feast or famine kind of lifestyle.

And I noticed this quite early on where we would open a cupboard and Matt would go, there's nothing to eat. And I would look at the same cupboard and go, there's so many things to eat, right? And that really encapsulates how we grew up. His mum would, food was a very big part of how she showed love and they didn't move very often.

There were only like two houses in a whole childhood, and she would stock the freezer she'd be really good at, you know, making sure that had lots of food. Whereas for in my family, we moved around a lot and there was never time to build up like old spices or anything like that. And my mum kind of just like did a just in time approach to food shopping.

So she'd go shopping and she could afford to buy like one carrot, one onion, you know, one bit of meat. And so we never had tonnes of excess right in our, in our cupboard. So this is a perfect encapsulation I think of the glass half empty glass half full mentality. And when you start to live with a partner or work with a partner, all of these differences will start to come out.

How you talk about money, your experiences around money, how you see money in general, if you're optimistic or pessimistic about money, do you feel like there's always enough, or do you feel like there's never enough? Right? And this is where you start to clash around things. So that's where we were at kind of at the start. And I remember, getting frustrated with Mark a little bit because I was always like reading a personal development book, wanting to go to a conference.

And I felt like he would just kind of get me to give him the CliffsNotes version. Right. And I was very clear on, like, where I wanted to go. And I was like, you got to stop talking about money in this way because it actually like, I'm I'm working on changing my mindset, and you're bringing me down, like, not, you know, like, more like you're being a bit of a Debbie Downer around money because I was learning these new things about language and how to talk about money.

Sometimes when that happens, when someone comes into money boot camp, for example, they start to see their partner as the problem and they're like, you're not saying this and you're not doing this in your impacting my money mindset. And what I realized now is that you have to be responsible for your own stuff. And if you come at it with curiosity, with your partner, which is what I had to do with Mark and sit down and say, you know, well, how did you grow up around money?

And like what? What's influence your attitude around money and having a shared language together to be like, oh, well, let's talk about our goals in this way. There's always more money or, you know, little affirmations that we would say together like, lucky, we're rich, which is what we used to say. You're like, really early on, I'd be lucky.

Very rich. And it was just like a little funny pattern interrupt to go, oh, we're so abundant. So Mark and I started working together after I had, our first baby. And I said to him, look, I don't think I could have a second baby with you working full time because I don't want to do this all by myself, and I, I've definitely, like, always, had a bit more of a masculine energy, I think, in, in our relationship.

And so it's kind of like, well, if you want to have a second baby, I think you just need to quit your job because it was a very stressful job where it was in Scott, he had to work most weekends. And I was literally planning my fertility around whether or not the team he worked for would make it to the finals, which that were a terrible team.

So it wasn't that much of a risk. But, and I was like, oh, this doesn't feel good to me. And I remember him sort of saying, oh, well, if your business ever gets to $1 million, I'd quit my job. And so I got to like 750 mark and I was like, you know, you can have to actually do this, right?

And, and so he agreed. And for a while he worked for himself. And our accountant was like, have you ever thought about working together? And I think if I had asked him, he would have said no. But I think because it came from someone else, he was like, oh, that's a great idea. Now that does not mean it's all been smooth sailing.

And actually, to be honest, one of the only reasons why we still work together now is because of the flexibility. Because in general, I don't really love working with my partner, I don't it's not that fun sometimes. So we have to have very siloed roles in the company, very separate roles in the company. I am the boss, but I also give him very free rein.

But I'm like, do it perfectly, but don't ask me any questions. Just do it based on vibes. So, I find it really challenging. I find it challenging in lots of ways. But it also has its moments where it's like, it's really great for flexibility for our family, right? So whenever people say, oh, I want to retire my partner, I'm like, okay, but just go into it cautiously.

It doesn't work for everybody. And in some families, it would be better to have one person who's the breadwinner. And has a steady paycheck and one person, he gets to do a little bit more creative stuff. Right? I think, for some families, that would be the healthiest option. For others, it's totally like, if it works for you and you can handle that little bit more uncertainty or you're both on the same page with empire building energy, go for it.

Just know that for some people it's really challenging, and for some people it's great. Okay. We also work, with a quarterly business coach to help us basically sit in a room, be forced to sit in a room together and plan out the next quarter because I would not do it otherwise. And will it be forever?

That's a question that I get a lot too. Is will it be forever? No. Like, I don't know. I think, at some point Mark would probably it would be healthier for Mark to have his own stuff. But it works for now, for the age that our kids are at. Right. And I think that's got to be for you and your family.

Like, do you like travel or do you like flexibility? You know, do you need a steady paycheck? For mental health reasons or financial reasons, then it's totally okay. I've also seen people where they do a bit of a hybrid where one partner might go to part time, one partner might completely stay at home while one person does the business.

There's no right or wrong. It's got to work for you. But I'm pretty honest about the fact that I do. I find a challenge or a little bit. Okay, so I've got some other juicy questions after the break, so do not go away. See you in a second.

Okay, so, the next question is from IFA, and it's actually an audio question that she sent in. So let listen to what IFA has to say. My question is around inheritances and what happens when I die. I think I would spend in my grave if I thought that the people who have treated me so horrendously would benefit in any shape or form from my death.

However, is that a money block on my part? And should I just simply to let it go top and forgive? Or do I leave all my money to the cats and dogs home and break the cycle of negative energy around money? That's my question. Okay, thank you, AFA, for sending that question about inheritance. So here's a really tricky thing.

Sometimes if you are in money boot camp, which I know you are, search in the search bar for inheritance because you'll see there are so many different emotions around this. And I think it is an important thing for us to think about as entrepreneurs, because I know that there have been in even in just my cohort of, entrepreneurs, there have been people who have died unexpectedly and they didn't know what they wanted to have happen to their business, to their income or anything.

And it's been a real shame also. Right. I also know that, I've seen people who are old enough that death is not like super, super far away. Almost refused to think about it because it's almost like if they do a will, they'll somehow manifest their death, right? I've also seen people feel really guilty about receiving inheritances. So, it's interesting.

I was spinning my grave. If I think that people would treat me horrendously, would benefit. You are allowed to choose what happens after you die. Like you're allowed to choose what happens to your income. And I think if you're not clear about it, that's when things can happen. You know, and I've I've had experiences in my own life with a family member who, did not specify.

I did not have a will, despite having cancer and being, sick and the absolute like mess that happened has meant that, a lot of my family don't speak to each other anymore, and that's really, really sad. Right. And so being clear on what you want will give you some peace of mind. Now, it's not a money block, you know, that you get to choose what happens.

But I would say make a decision, go and get the paperwork and then live your life right. It's totally okay for you to do whatever you want. Yeah. And be at peace with it now, because who knows what happens after we die, right? You might you might understand and see what's happening, or we might not. We know.

None of us know. So it's totally okay, to do what feels good to you and have peace of mind of it, and then live your life now. Okay. All right. Thank you for sending that question in. Okay, so, a question from Agnes about being the breadwinner. Okay. Do you have any money mindset tips about being the main breadwinner, retiring your husband?

I feel grateful for being able to make money very easily for a family doing something I love. But whenever we start having a face, it's a bit tighter. I sometimes feel resentful, even though he does contribute a lot in other ways. And it's fair if I look at it rationally. Okay. I would say I have I have had every emotion around this about being the breadwinner. 

Okay, so in the early days, when Mark and I where, you know, together before we had kids and were quite young and we didn't have a lot of expenses, I would start a business, I wasn't really sure. And then I'd go back into work and then and at one point I said, look, I really want to start my business properly.

And, I would really appreciate if you would support me for six months doing that. And he was like, no problem. We could live on his salary at time. We're very lucky to do that. But we lived in a very small apartment and we didn't have a lot of expenses. You know, we didn't have any kids. So I'm obviously privileged to be able to do it.

But I was like, I think this is a really good investment in our future because I, I want to be able to make my own money, but I remember like a month in, he was like, maybe I should just get a little job. And I'm like, I've done that before. Remember six months? This is the agreement, right? And I had to really be super boundary around that and almost be like, okay, I'm not doing laundry during the day.

I'm working, you know, and like, just really carve out that bubble for myself of like going, this is really, really important. Okay. Then when my business started making money and then I retired, Mark, it felt really great for a while. And then there was a point where it didn't. And this is when I was having some mental health challenges, perimenopause, undiagnosed ADHD.

And that's when it tipped for me of going, oh no, now I have to do this. Also, by that stage, we were financially supporting family members as well. We had a lot more employees. We had some investments that we were putting a lot of money into. And so it suddenly hit me. I was like, oh, I have to do this for everyone else.

It was also one of the reasons why we decided to sell our farm, because it started to feel like a burden for me that everyone else got to enjoy, and I didn't. And so I was like, I don't want to be in this energy space of feeling like I don't get anything. And that's when it's been like a couple of years process, I think, of unwinding some of those things, of going, okay, if I can't continue at this pace anymore, what do I need to change in my life, in business?

So then the business is more flexible and there are less burdens on me if I don't want to or if I can't for mental health reasons or physical reasons or whatever. Right. So we made some, changes about how we lived. We sold our big house, our farm. We made some changes around team and like, even some boundary stuff around family members.

And we had to do this because I was like, I am not like, I cannot outsource me and I don't want to continue at this pace anymore. It just was a certain point. I was like, I can't do it. And so I totally get the whole feeling of being resentful. And I was almost feeling like, oh, this is how my grandfather felt when he'd come home from work and he'd be like, get out of my chair.

Like he was always really grim. He's like, get in my chair. I'm putting my show on. And I felt like I was doing that a little bit. I was like, well, I'm the breadwinner. So yes, I get to choose what's on TV or like, yes, you guys should serve me like, yes. And it was like a very like almost quite a bit of a masculine energy for me.

Right. And so I was like, oh, I just need to shift things. So I'm not as, not as responsible for so many things. I had to simplify my life. Right. The other thing that was so crucial for me, which stopped the resentment, is I started doing non-business things for myself because I love I love my business. I love business in general.

But when I have to do it, it change the energy of it. For me, I was like, oh no, I don't have as much choice. I have to do this now because we've got all these bigger expenses. Damn it, what have I done? And, and it happened to me. I was at a conference and people are like, thank you so much for coming.

And I was like, saying, my pleasure, my pleasure, my pleasure. That was just my go to response. And then I was like, my pleasure. I'm like, that's a bit sad. This is my pleasure because I was like, I enjoy it. I can love my business. I can love what I do, but what are the pleasures do I have in my life and actually didn't have that many?

I most of it was about business. And so that's when I decided to do more dancing again, to more creative pursuits that had nothing to do with my business. So now it feels like I prosper from my business as well, not just everyone else. And that was such a big distinction for me. And so then I'm not saying like, it's still perfect and I don't still feel like, oh, it's on me because it is.

Right. And that's a real privilege, too. It's a real privilege to be able to do that. And I'm not saying like from a white privilege point of view, I'm like, I get to do this. I choose to do this. Even things like financially supporting family members, there was a time where I was like, I was a bit resentful because I'm like, well, they're just living their life.

And then I'm like, that's what I wanted. And then you're going to be around forever, and I will never regret this. Like, I'll never think, oh, I, you know, I yeah, I would just be like, oh, I wish they were still around. Like when, when that does happen in the future. So I'm like, oh it just feels it's just flipped now of going, I choose this.

And I get rewards from it as well. And so I hope that I hope that helps. Agnes is for me now going to dancing. It's got nothing to do with my business. It's not. It's not monetizable. It's like, oh, I get to have a good life, too. Not just everyone else. Hopefully that helps. Okay.

Okay. Oh my God, thank you so much for these relationship questions. Let's take one final break and I'll be back with one last thought for you.

This is this was a deep episode, I think, for me and, I, I've had lots of questions around relationship stuff. So we'll definitely do another episode on this too, because it's really tricky, you know, and I think my final thought is that you, have to be responsible for your own money mindset and you have to advocate for yourself, like, what do you need?

Because it's easy, I think, to get into that dynamic of being the breadwinner or being the overly responsible one, especially now as we can we have the opportunity that our grandmothers didn't have to make more money, but we have to make sure we don't also slip into the martyrdom and self-sacrifice that they did as well, because that's a real trap, right?

Make more money, but also sacrifice more. Also that, you know, relationships are tricky sometimes, you know, so it's okay if you have a different money mindset than your partner. I'll do another episode, on this too, about helping them, have a bit more of a positive mindset, but it starts with you. You've got to do the work and give yourself permission to get what you need as well, and not feel bad or selfish about it.

Okay. Yes, I a good affirmation I serve, I deserve, I serve, I deserve and stay tuned. I will do another relationship episode, I promise. Yes. And if you're in money boot camp, don't forget to go and check out the partners and Money assignment if you need to revisit that. And, if you do need help on this, come and join us in Money Boot Camp.